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Getting newbies out of their comfort zone

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Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58696	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:54:00 - [1] - Quote Why do you even CARE ? No really. Why is this of all things so important to OP ? "People should come and join EVE then be absolutely forced into gameplay modes they are not interested in at all. Yup, it's a sandbox, and it's MY sandbox". Sounds like a perfect formula for business disaster and fading subscriptions. Why are so anxious to kill the thing you like ? Can you even look at yourself seriously in the mirror without being disappointed in what you see ? "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58698	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:29:00 - [2] - Quote Wondering when these laughable Corps and Alliances will start requiring Real Life Resumes and curriculum vitae for membership inclusion. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58812	Posted - 2013.10.20 10:46:00 - [3] - Quote Newbies out of their comfort zone ???? It's been 4 years, but in the first 6 months of newbie play, I lost more ships than I've lost total in the 3 1/2 years since. What comfort zone are we talking about exactly ??? "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58818	Posted - 2013.10.20 10:53:00 - [4] - Quote TharOkha wrote: Vaju Enki wrote: Renegade Heart wrote: Vaju Enki wrote: The ability to wardec a single player on a NPC corp would solve this problem. You can't fight a war against a player that's gonna quit Eve because of your wardec. How does your solution solve this problem? Horseshit, they are just themepark carebears that don't enjoy the sandbox mmo-rpg's. Theirs a easy solution, don't like the genre, stick with themepark mmo-rpg's. Well..... let just say that I'm glad that you are not a part of CCP management. And we are all thrilled you are not the Senior Developer for CCP. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58821	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:16:00 - [5] - Quote Amber Kurvora wrote: Nice to see the debate fall into the realms of "Your mumma...", or the classic "No, you are!" playground realms. For all the computing power of the human mind, online threads can sometime get depressingly predictable. I'm looking forward to the day when an argument ends with "...and I appreciate your view points, and though they differ from my own, they still raise valid points.". I mean we could use these arguments to potentially highlight ideas, but this is Eve we're talking about, and thus the e-***** (attached to the e-ego) is mightier than the ability to rationalise and be civil to one another. The biggest problem with Democracy is that it essentially says that one's wrongful, uneducated opinion is just as valid and equal to another's intelligent informed opinion. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58821	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:18:00 - [6] - Quote Solstice Project's Alt wrote: Amber Kurvora wrote: Nice to see the debate fall into the realms of "Your mumma...", or the classic "No, you are!" playground realms. For all the computing power of the human mind, online threads can sometime get depressingly predictable. I'm looking forward to the day when an argument ends with "...and I appreciate your view points, and though they differ from my own, they still raise valid points.". I mean we could use these arguments to potentially highlight ideas, but this is Eve we're talking about, and thus the e-***** (attached to the e-ego) is mightier than the ability to rationalise and be civil to one another. Never going to happen, but that's not related to EvE per se. It's the people who are the issue and not the game. Indeed, no place is designed to be a ghetto. It's the people who make it into one. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58823	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:34:00 - [7] - Quote Dyvim Slorm wrote: My personal view is that the tax rate for NPC's corps is far too low for the protection they get against wardecs. How can you determine exactly what is 'too much' or 'too low' ?? They pay the highest taxes in the game in order to have that very protection. Nerf mission income enough and any casual new subscribers will just leave, so no thanks for another bad idea. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58823	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:42:00 - [8] - Quote Vaju Enki wrote: Iudicium Vastus wrote: Vaju Enki wrote: The ability to wardec a single player on a NPC corp would solve this problem. That would be the beginning of the end for EVE Themepark carebears propaganda, the reality is this, the more they cry, the more EvE Online grows. Someone is both full of themselves, and nonsense. U SO FU NNY "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58830	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:22:00 - [9] - Quote Onictus wrote: Hardly Oh no. Why should you possibly explain yourself ? Can't substantiate huh ? "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58830	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:25:00 - [10] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Their aproach with the Hallelujah Plan for the next three years is "be this tall and you will get New Space and a hug from CCP ~weloveyou~ Seagull", but that doesn't adresses the issue that they are running out of potential players. Ultima Online depleted its pool of customers in 5 years, EVE has taken 10, but all in all, there is only so much kids "this tall". The problem with your analogy is that "new kids" are born every year, and grow every year - so while there may (or may not) be validity to your contention that CCP wants players to be "this tall", there is always going to be a new "crop" of players coming along. Now, whether Star Citizen or some of the other Space MMO's are going to steal some recruits away from CCP - that remains to be seen. Anyone predicting behaviors of video game players and the industry itself especially now, is either unaware of what's going on or is just pipe-dreaming. It's an industry floundering in a sea of its own jeopardy for the moment. The Industry is seemingly only wanting to turn a blind eye towards its own mistakes (betcha nobody had money 2 years ago on SimCity becoming a hated product). "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58842	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:30:00 - [11] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs. That's up to the players, and nothing CCP can do about that. Neighborhoods for example are all pretty much alike by design. What happens to them depends upon the particular people that move in. And EVE players have had over a DECADE to change the situation, with no effect. That is hardly CCP's issue to figure out. Social dynamics are what they are. Especially in a Sandbox. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58855	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:52:00 - [12] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No, it's not. The players have nothing to do with the simple fact that a highsec corp is basically just a chat channel. They can't own anything, there is nothing to fight over, nothing to defend. Oh right. Nothing to defend at all like ships, POSes, and POCOS now while under War Dec. Got it. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58867	Posted - 2013.10.20 14:00:00 - [13] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So no, they don't actually have anything to defend. No actual assets. Highsec pocos are a step in the right direction, to actually give people a reason to be in a highsec corp. I was only ever in one to chat with people about actually learning the game. If new players are of a mindset from other games who are so lazy they can't even do that for a few months, there is, again, nothing CCP can do about it. ed: The mechanics have been there, always have been there. Will be there. And the new players are doing exactly what they want, whether its a good or a bad thing. Any kind of mandate to do otherwise will drive them out and away, as it should. It breaks their, and the general idea, of a sandbox. Maybe not your idea of one, but then it is very subjective. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58879	Posted - 2013.10.20 14:22:00 - [14] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: When my kid didn't want to get in the pool to learn how to swim, I threw her little ass in there. Today, she loves the water and swimming, and she even takes more baths as a result. I file that under child abuse. She would have eventually learned to like it anyway. And if not, what is your obsession with children submerged in water ? Sounds weird tbh. edit: Also, we are mostly adults here. Try throwing me in a pool or making me do something else I don't wanna do. Just try. You took advantage of a child's powerlessness and just admitted it in public...in print. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58887	Posted - 2013.10.20 14:39:00 - [15] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: When my kid didn't want to get in the pool to learn how to swim, I threw her little ass in there. Today, she loves the water and swimming, and she even takes more baths as a result. I file that under child abuse. She would have eventually learned to like it anyway. And if not, what is your obsession with children submerged in water ? Sounds weird tbh. edit: Also, we are mostly adults here. Try throwing me in a pool or making me do something else I don't wanna do. Just try. You took advantage of a child's powerlessness and just admitted it in public...in print. She had one of those little floaty vests on, and you'd be surprised how buoyant a 2 year old is. What I did, by the way, despite your poor bleeding heart insisting otherwise, was show her that she was being a nitwit. That's my job as a parent. Because, of the two of us, my having been the one who had swam before, she's not in a position to tell me she won't like it. She doesn't know any better, and the person who did know better taught her otherwise. Adults are slightly more stubborn, so sometimes you have to teach that lesson more than once. And sometimes they retreat to childishness, and refuse to poke their heads out of their shells. We call those people carebears. Oh, and by the way. Idk what kind of limp wristed excuse for an adult thinks it's child abuse to teach a necessary survival skill to a child whether they like it or not. She can swim now. She might thank me later. It's not like you would let a teenager refuse to ever learn how to drive. She would learn when she was ready. My own father forced me onto an adult roller coaster when I was 5 years old and I definitely wanted nothing of the sort to do with it. I was mortally terrified the entire time and when we got home, my mother didn't know how to calm me down for days and days apparently. She was pretty furious. After I grew up, I started riding the things on my own with friends and such and finally got over my fear....which had been reinforced even further by what my father forced me to do. I'll ride any damned roller coaster now, but hardly a month goes by even to this day that the terror of that initially being forced to do something I did not want to do goes through my mind. It was always a horrible resentment that tainted our relationship tbh, until the day he left us. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58887	Posted - 2013.10.20 14:55:00 - [16] - Quote Regardless of the swimming pool and roller coaster nonsense........................ ........the biggest appeal for me concerning EVE, especially having never played an MMORPG ever (except a few rounds of D & D around 1979), was not having anything mandated as a "must be done this way". One could literally do what one wants. The moment something is enacted in this direction, EVE is all over with but for the Long Drawn-Out Death-Wail. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58891	Posted - 2013.10.20 15:08:00 - [17] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Varius Xeral wrote: limp-wristed cowards in a video game are also spineless limp-wristed cowards in real life Again with the camp-hate tut tut Its like this is thread going down THAT path again For real. You probably know my story. Wrists don't really have a thing to do with sexual orientation in either direction. But comments like that do tell a lot about the person saying them, and most indeed. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58891	Posted - 2013.10.20 15:10:00 - [18] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I'll thank you not to project your own issues onto my family, however. Then don't publicly post about your family issues in the first place. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58891	Posted - 2013.10.20 15:11:00 - [19] - Quote Varius Xeral wrote: I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but "limp-wristed" is not an offensive term. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, if that is what you are imagining. Go ahead and try to make me have great denial over my own personal experience with that phrase over a 48 year period of witnessing it's usage. It's simply not going to happen. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58891	Posted - 2013.10.20 15:19:00 - [20] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I'll thank you not to project your own issues onto my family, however. Then don't publicly post about your family issues in the first place. It was an analogy, numbskull. You're the fool who called me out for "child abuse", the blame lies with you and you alone. It is not at all my fault. You posted the personal detail. You are going to get both positive and negative responses, just like in real life. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58891	Posted - 2013.10.20 15:24:00 - [21] - Quote Limp Wrist: "Limp Wrist is a United States punk rock band, who formed in 1998. Featuring members of Los Crudos, Hail Mary, Devoid of Faith, and Kill the Man Who Questions, the band plays short, fast hardcore music, and covers themes concerning the gay community in their live performances and lyrics." ......to 'retake ownership" of this oft abused phrase. Apparently YOU are the only one unaware of this use of the phrase, which is honestly rather freaky (I'm taking you as serious and not Troll). "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 58891	Posted - 2013.10.20 15:25:00 - [22] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I'll thank you not to project your own issues onto my family, however. Then don't publicly post about your family issues in the first place. It was an analogy, numbskull. You're the fool who called me out for "child abuse", the blame lies with you and you alone. It is not at all my fault. You posted the personal detail. You are going to get both positive and negative responses, just like in real life. None of which permits you to project your daddy issues onto my own familial interactions and thereby accuse me of child abuse. You were completely, 100% in the wrong for that. You sure are fighting mighty hard for something you otherwise seem to feel is so innocuous. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters

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